Age of sigmar

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I can get behind the fluff. I actually rather like it. Very different from what we're used to.

The rules...are...I just don't understand. They make sense for a starter set, but they don't withstand more rigorous play.

That said, they also don't contain terrain rules. They don't contain scenarios. They're like unearthing the bones for some alien creature...you get the suspicion the skeleton is only partial, but you're not really sure what is missing or what it should look like...only that something must be missing.

I am holding out hope that we'll see something interesting on Saturday, and that a more expanded ruleset will be released. It doesn't have to be 150 pages, given that all the special rules have been pushed onto the cards. But at least some sort of more robust framework?



As for the undead, from the leaked pages it looks like zombies and skeletons are not fielded units, but ones which are raised throughout the game. Makes sense, given how the outnumbering rules work. I assume your opponent doesn't get to do sudden death scenarios if you raise up twice his army througout the ourse of the game? Though that's not really clear...

 

[Mr. West]

'Bloodsecrator'

Sounds like a new movie with Jean-Claude Van Damme and Steven Seagal ...

Nah, seriously now, someone needs to call down the police on them for violating the english language.

 

[Undying Scourge]

It gets worse with everything that's leaked!

 

[Sception]

Orcs, goblins and ogres seems to have become orruks, grots and ogors. Obviously as a way of making the names into defendable IP. Did we know this in advance?

I really wish people would stop repeating this, it's so blatantly untrue. Your ogre models are no more protectable if you call them 'ogors' or 'orogs'. Any 3rd party can make ogre models regardless, and nobody's trying to sell non-GW fantasy novels set in GW's universe.

This isn't about protectable IP, it's about Phantasy Spelling, and trying to set an individual tone for the setting. Many, many fantasy games and novels do this, coming up with wacky names and silly respellings of existing words. Heck, Tolkein did this, albeit far, far more competently.

I mean, lest we forget, in Mantic's Kings of War universe rat-men are called "Veer-myn" or something equally ludicrous.

Now I would have preferred fully made up names which are none-the-less evocative of the concept like 'Skaven' or 'Asrai' or, indeed, 'Duardin' rather than comical mispronunciations and mispellings like 'orogs' or really awkward and embarrassing compound words like 'deathrattlers' for simple concepts like 'skeletons'. That said, there are some decent names in the new stuff. I rather like 'Seraphon' for Lizardmen. And, as mentioned, I would like 'Duardin', but prefacing it with 'Steamhead' kind of ruins it.

Again, all the fluff and names I can deal with. What will make or break this for me is the game, which doesn't even have do be good, just comfortably and quickly playable, and if I have to spend ten minutes debating how many Deathrattlers we feel each Orog is worth before every game without any sort of standard to go by, that's not going to be the case, at least not for me.


EDIT: from the sound of it, they're not changing the origins of vampires at all. Nagash in Age of Sigmar is the same guy as Nagash from the Before Times, after all. Presumably some vampires survived the apocalypse, or were resurrected by Nagash after he coalesced in the new realm of death, and passed the curse forward from there.

 

[Undying Scourge]

So the vampires endure and carry the ancient memories of the Old World, lamenting its passing, mourning the loss of their beloved land... fitting really considering that's what most of us are doing lol. That being said, all the bloodlines can still exist, along with all the characters - Abhorash, Vlad, Mannfred, Neferata etc. Poor sods. They just can't get any rest can they, and now things are worse than ever for them, since they're basically slaves to Nagash's will.

But why would I want to engage in this new, inferior setting when I can just engage in the old, better one? I suppose it's worth paying attention to from a distance, which is what I've been doing anyway. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand the fluff is not a bad continuation of Warhammer, but the rules are so shit that there's nothing to even go on, you can't even play it, and even if you could it would be junk anyway.

 

[Undying Scourge]

SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE MARIIIIIIINNNNNEEEEEESSSSS

 

[Undying Scourge]

So this is what became of the Bretonnians.

 

[TMS]

I really wish people would stop repeating this, it's so blatantly untrue. Your ogre models are no more protectable if you call them 'ogors' or 'orogs'. Any 3rd party can make ogre models regardless, and nobody's trying to sell non-GW fantasy novels set in GW's universe.

Not wanting to take this thread off the topic of AoS again, but do we know that it isn't at least partly responsible for the change? Back when GW's ogres were called ogres people could easily look for alternative models by googling for generic ogre miniatures. Now that they're instead called ogors GW's legal department will have an easier time with chasing down third party manufacturers of "ogor parts" if they're named as such to make the connection easy for interested buyers. Right now, a quick search for "ogor miniature" doesn't give me any direct hits and if I wouldn't be in the know of what an ogor actually is I might think that GW's are the only ones in town.

I don't have the legal knowledge to really know about all this but to me it feels like GW knows, subconsciously or not, that what they offer don't have enough value to stop people from looking for alternatives.

Edit: By the way, do any of the realms mention regular humans at all? Are they even around anymore?

 

[Infernal Skull]

So this is what became of the Bretonnians.

I'm guessing that banner is a conversion, because that's not the banner that comes with the Black Knight kit. Maybe when they're repackaged as Necrodeathrattle Knyghts, they'll have newly tooled sprues along with their warscroll?

I can't identify the part, but now that I look at it, the cuts in the flag do look kind of man-made.

 

[TMS]

I'm guessing that banner is a conversion, because that's not the banner that comes with the Black Knight kit. Maybe when they're repackaged as Necrodeathrattle Knyghts, they'll have newly tooled sprues along with their warscroll?

I can't identify the part, but now that I look at it, the cuts in the flag do look kind of man-made.

I think that banner comes from the greatswords, actually. The upside-down laurel wreath and the creases are the same.

https://theshellcase.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/empgreatswords_873x627.jpg

 

[Undying Scourge]

"Oh, Space Marines vs Daemons. That one in the middle has a Thunder Hammer. Look at the lightning bolt on that shoulder pad - clearly an Assault Marine. Nothing to see here."


"Wait, these aren't Space Marines? This isn't 40k? This is Fantasy you say?!"

 

[Banat]

I'm guessing that banner is a conversion, because that's not the banner that comes with the Black Knight kit. Maybe when they're repackaged as Necrodeathrattle Knyghts, they'll have newly tooled sprues along with their warscroll?

I can't identify the part, but now that I look at it, the cuts in the flag do look kind of man-made.

lol necrodeathrattle knights made me lol.

if anything it looks like nagash and the undead got a fluffy upgrade.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Not wanting to take this thread off the topic of AoS again, but do we know that it isn't at least partly responsible for the change? Back when GW's ogres were called ogres people could easily look for alternative models by googling for generic ogre miniatures. Now that they're instead called ogors GW's legal department will have an easier time with chasing down third party manufacturers of "ogor parts" if they're named as such to make the connection easy for interested buyers. Right now, a quick search for "ogor miniature" doesn't give me any direct hits and if I wouldn't be in the know of what an ogor actually is I might think that GW's are the only ones in town.

I don't have the legal knowledge to really know about all this but to me it feels like GW knows, subconsciously or not, that what they offer don't have enough value to stop people from looking for alternatives.

Edit: By the way, do any of the realms mention regular humans at all? Are they even around anymore?

Yes the regular humans still exist, mostly in the realm of Sigmar, but also in all the other realms, except Death, because Nagash rules that realm and I presume the vampires and all the other undead stalk the landscape. They were mostly enslaved by Chaos when it invaded the realms after discovering them, but Sigmar retreated to and holed up in Azyrheim with a lot of them along with other races and forged the Sigmarites, using the remaining metallic core of the Old World to forge their armour and weapons along with Grugni. Now he's striking back at Chaos and liberating the enslaved masses of humans, elves, dwarfs etc.

The old racial boundaries are gone it seems, now everyone is happy living together and working together against Chaos, all the treachery, intrigue and racial hatred of old Warhammer is gone. So, you could use empire models if you wanted, or bretonnians, but they wouldn't be of the Empire or Bretonnia since those people, along with the civilisations they belonged to, are dead, and probably enslaved by Nagash now. Remember Nagash has usurped all the death gods, including Morr, so now he is the supreme god of death apparently, which is quite cool, it's nice how he finally got what he wanted all along - godhood, and an entire realm of endless decay and stagnation. But of course, Nagash being Nagash, it's never enough so I assume he still wants to conquer the other Realms and devour the Chaos Gods.

The whole thing about Ogor being a way of making it easier to track down third party reproductions doesn't work for me. They're still Ogres, everyone's going to call them Ogres, so when they go online they'll just type in Ogres. Anyway, no one is going to bother now anyway since AoS rules are so shite.

 

[Mr. West]

Really, these 'Chapters' of Stormcast Whatsoevers just did it for me ... yeah ... and Sigmar is the God Emperor of Mankind.
Mixing up the fluff of both WHFB and 40k now.
And to all the 40k players out there .... guess who's next to be a victim of the new 'simplified and community friendly rules' ... yeah, 40k 8th edition due in .... no time at all .... since we're pushing out codex books faster than you can adapt to them anyways.
Seriously, 40k will see the same treatment in due time.

Games Workshop, the company you once loved, now violating one game system at a time.

Astral Templars and Lions of Sigmar ... u-huh ...

 

[Farmer7574]

Damn those Sigmarite models are pretty unappealing.

 

[Emicrania]

The light at the end of the tunnel is getting weaker and weaker. This is a trap!

What is the point of playing Warhammer if the fluff is gone, the units blocks and the army feeling is gone, the rules are gone,the names are gone and the fantasy style is gone?
Why just don't play another game and call it TGODFB and still have fun without giving money to a company that doesn't give a fliyn *beep* ( touchy people around here) about their customers and their fans?
I don't get it. I don't.

Edit: The Good Ol' Days Fantasy Battle is NOT a trademark and you can use it as much as you want. We won't see you in court a d we won't persecute you.


I mean,would Mickey Mouse still be him if they told you his story is different (is an an homophobic racist with AIDS), he looks different now (goes around with a slave leather dress that leave an opening only for the ears), doesnt act the same no more( he get drunk at 11Am and beat bums in the streets), and have a new nickname (Mickey RAUS!). But hey is still your old kind squeky Mickey,ain't him? He's gotta be!

 

[GDD]

I hate that their breast plates look like abbs, and that their helms loo like faces. They seem like dead automatons or something. The lightning halo could look cool combined with other helms. I wish there was more variation in general. It does look better on some of the characters/champions.

But where did you find the two last pictures? EDIT: NVM. Found them

 

[Borgnine]

WT flying F? I thought that the rumor with the orruks, ogors and aelfs was just a pathetic joke and not something true... Seriously dudes. It won't protect any IP and people will still look for 'ogre' and 'orc' replacements on the internet. Mantic Veer-myn for me is actually trying to simulate a name aliens call themselves with and it still sounds 'accidentally' like something we now. This thing that GW pulls is just trying to hard at being original, while still doing nothing original. Or maybe cool, I don't know. Even if they are following the trope, it still sounds stupid. Very stupid. Damn, I wasn't so disturbed with this new edition since the sigmarines proved to be real.

Worhommyr Ege uf Sygmyr....

And the chapters of the sigmarines... next edition is surely merging AoS with 40K. Magic brothers and technology brothers against chaos!

 

[Demian]

Hmmmm Undead Bretonnians... gives us Blood Knights again!!! and from THE source: Abhorash.

You know, I understand Nagash is kinda "our" god now... but damnit if he has to be so petty everytime. "Ooooooh I want to rule alone because my brother didn't love me..." (or "I didn't love my brother")

And by the resolution of it, Dwarves DID deserve the Wind of Fire all along, regardless of who got to "guard" it by the End Times: Archaon. They also managed to lose his Fire-God again, but really kudos to them!

I hope Isabella becomes a badass who wants to save her husband from uh... "death?" and becomes the next head of the Von Carstein bloodline!

 

[Undying Scourge]

It's all gone to shit. Warhammer is gone, and they're replacing it with this load of wank. Games Workshop are absolutely dead to me, I've had enough, this is the last straw. I'm never buying anything from them again, and I'm never going to one of their stores again either.

 

[GDD]

I like the concept of Nagash, and his ambition, but I really wish he had more of a clear personality. He just seems kinda angsty. (And the idea to turn everyone into mindless slaves that work for you is kind of boring and pointless.) And after reading the Nagash book I never really understood if our vampires ended up being mind controlled by him, or if he can read their thoughts, or what. Because if my general is technically a slave to him then that is kind of a deal breaker to me. I like the idea that he is their leader/god due to him being overwhelmingly powerful though.

@Demian I was too late to pick up the last end times book. Is Isabella alive, and Vlad gone? Is there a spoiler thread somewhere?

 

[Infernal Skull]

If Nagash doesn't still SPEAK IN ALL CAPS, I'm done.

 

[DarkRane]

Anyone else realize how the AoS bolt thingys look like the earliest rendition space marine symbols?

Not trying to feed the already raging fires, just noticing the mesh of loreverses :tongue:

 

[TMS]

In this picture we can see what appears to be a new piece of terrain that's coming out for AoS. Bottom left.

 

[Sception]

The old racial boundaries are gone it seems, now everyone is happy living together and working together against Chaos, all the treachery, intrigue and racial hatred of old Warhammer is gone.

I understand being bitter at a lot of the developments so far, but this just isn't true of the new fluff? I mean, humans and dwarves are pretty buddy buddy, but that was already the case in WHFB. The elves seemed strained allies at best since Tyrion and Sigmar couldn't agree on a course of action, the lizardmen are stated to only show up when they feel like it, theres a (human?) mercenary culture that is nominally part of 'team good' but is also stated to be untrustworthy, Nagash's power play seems to be what broke the golden age, and orcs are still stated to fight anything that moves. There's plenty of room for strife and rivalry and intrigue among the non-chaos forces, even with what little of the fluff we've seen so far.

I'm not saying it is or will be handled well, but there's enough true things to be angry at here that I don't think we need to be making stuff up.