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Age of sigmar

Tawg

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I just find these models to be beyond the vast majority of painters, its a total waste. They're aiming their game more at newbies and casual gamers (imo) yet their models continue to be more and more intricate and the price is still much higher than most competitors.
Literally one of the first things I said upon coming back to the forums when AoS started :ghost:
If they intend to make beautiful models (Which they do), for hobbyist to enjoy, who are they trying to sell to? If they intend to be a miniature company first and foremost, can their models not support themselves on their appearance? I mean, I know not everyone is in the game for the hobby first and foremost, but now there is no other reason to be into Warhammer. No one can look at rules like that and say "Now THAT makes me want to spend hundreds of hard earned dollars to play!" If they want to play Age of Sigmar, they can just draw doodles on paper and cut them out, 'enjoy' the experience, and get on with it. But if they are trying to market models, to discerning folks to enjoy the hobby, what is this game even? I dare say that, to be invested in this whole thing as a hobby, you very well would need a reliable disposable income, patience and time to model/paint, as well as skill and I would say a fair bit of intelligence. But if those qualities are ones possessed by their target market, hobbyist interested in their models (Which have very unique and distinct branding, so they are not confused about what they are buying) then why throw a game that can't be taken seriously at them? They would be better off saying "You're literally on your own, we don't know the first thing about balance. WE GIVE UP!" rather than making a system built on interactions that could be considered insulting to their player base. (You want me to whisper back and forth with myself, to my model, to gain bonuses.. right..about that..)

So really, this whole thing, seeing it a bit more fleshed out, just seems like a completely conflicted mish-mash of target marketing. I guess some people may fall into the range of "deeply interested in hobby-related activities" and also "Want to throw toys at my friends toys, and see who wins!" but for the most part, I would assume there is a direct conflict between the people interested in this "game" and "hobby".

I mean, for me the hobby is much more important, so this is much less difficult to swallow on the basis of, if I want to make nice looking models, GW still has nice looking models. But the follow up game I am graciously granted free access to, seems like a deterrent more than anything.

But yeah, I totally agree that some of the finer points of GW models are missed on many people. Not to say I'm an artist, but I cringe every time I see a model and they are like "Oh yeah, paint it 3 base colors and wash the whole thing with Nuln Oil, it looks great!" Literally kills me. And the fact that the game isn't on a highest of the high production tier as their models just confounds me, because if they marketed a game that was worth playing, with solid rules, they would have such a strong presence in every respect.

As a father of two I can't imagine for a second letting my kids anywhere near these models they are producing for AoS, they are making a less niche game with far 'nichier' models. Thats not a word I know, but I can't think of an alternative right now.
I couldn't be more confused by GW direction these last few months if I tried.
On this point, I am a bit torn on the subject. I am not personally a parent, but I totally get where you're coming from, and even when I try to bring my friends under my wing and teach them about the hobby side of things, I am quite jealous with my desire to uphold a higher standard than many people might go at the hobby with. And with children this is obviously an issue the younger or less mature they are. But then again, part of it is just the bringing together of people sharing something you enjoy, and while children might require a more guiding hand, I don't think it's entirely fair to say that it's a "Whoa don't touch that!" situation. Although obviously it's an expensive hobby, so it's not something you want to casually throw around, but letting them have a hand in the affairs, I could see being a good thing. One forum goer in particular, @Mc1gamer, does this with his kid as well as @wheeljack, so actually more than one. And I think that's worth mentioning. But obviously it would depend on the child, their interest and level of commitment/maturity, clearly @Dark Prince is a bit further along than some (I assume he's high school, though I don't even know).

But I think it's a potential relation that would be worth fostering. Despite the cringe worthy efforts of some hobbyist, I'd rather allow a friend/child the chance to explore the hobby than simply tell them it's way over their head. Although it may be important to express the sort of monetary commitment/investment this would be rather than treating it as a throw-away hobby.

I hope they will bring in something this much for Tzeentch.
I hear Tzeentch is next.. if they bring chaos mortals that are twisted and awesome to the mix, I will be ecstatic. I already love the possessed models. Although honestly I can not wait to see what they do with ANY other army as far as new units. What type of base-size are we talking, is everything going to be rather large? Is there no such things as skink/skaven/normal-Human-scale units (Size wise, rather tiny)? I'm very curious.
 

Draykorinee

Grave Guard
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Sep 10, 2014
Messages
213
It's their tendency many moons ago, and why not?
I did say why not, they're seemingly making a game that is trying to branch out and encourage new gamers and they don't offer models that are not overwhelming to painy or a price that doesn't break the bank right now. The average painter (including myself), these models don't seem to fit where they are heading with their game.

Disagree. Most competitors have similar or even higher prices, and it's not mentioning the more ancient and prolific companies like Dragon, Italery or Tamiya.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of reaper/mantic/perry miniatures/GBP which are the companies I and my friends are now using as we're focusing on another game. I konw this particular model is ofc not something scale wise these guys often do but even the stormcast for example are just a scary prospect for noob painters imo.

I'd say it's not good. They should decide on their own - Jedem das Seine and all that.
I had to google that first thing in the morning shame on you :tongue:
 
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Draykorinee

Grave Guard
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Messages
213
And with children this is obviously an issue the younger or less mature they are. But then again, part of it is just the bringing together of people sharing something you enjoy, and while children might require a more guiding hand, I don't think it's entirely fair to say that it's a "Whoa don't touch that!" situation.
These models definitely give a "whoa, dont touch it" vibe, modelling in general, absolutely not, my kids constantly play with my mantic and old GW models I even let them get a paint brush sometimes :) (They're 6+4 so this ofc is not the best age)
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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Messages
934
I hear Tzeentch is next.. if they bring chaos mortals that are twisted and awesome to the mix, I will be ecstatic. I already love the possessed models. Although honestly I can not wait to see what they do with ANY other army as far as new units. What type of base-size are we talking, is everything going to be rather large? Is there no such things as skink/skaven/normal-Human-scale units (Size wise, rather tiny)? I'm very curious.
Me too. The main question of many of us, I guess. Let's just hope they won't remove any existing model ranges...
I did say why not, they're seemingly making a game that is trying to branch out and encourage new gamers and they don't offer models that are not overwhelming to painy or a price that doesn't break the bank right now. The average painter (including myself), these models don't seem to fit where they are heading with their game.
Aye, fair point. But to some extent it may be a some kind of encouraging people paint better. GW has lots of models which are way less demanding in your painting skills.
I guess I was thinking more along the lines of reaper/mantic/perry miniatures/GBP which are the companies I and my friends are now using as we're focusing on another game. I konw this particular model is ofc not something scale wise these guys often do but even the stormcast for example are just a scary prospect for noob painters imo.
Aye, they are, in fact. But their quality and level of details are quite weaker, and en masse they don't offer something great or worth buying, I'd say. But you're right, their prices are much more usually justifying.
I had to google that first thing in the morning shame on you :tongue:
When it made you do this, it was not in vain :)
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
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1,315
Will it not be that big even for an armored sci-fi lady?

All changes make our life better. Without them the world would be too static!
It looks like the base would be bigger, but the model itself would be a little smaller. I can't find any pics now, but for a while, GW had a Celestine model that looked like the base was about the same size. I hadn't looked in a very long time, though. I am sure it won't matter either way...
 

Tawg

Vampire Count
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Aye, fair point. But to some extent it may be a some kind of encouraging people paint better. GW has lots of models which are way less demanding in your painting skills.
That's a hopeful viewpoint, but not bad. Although I'd also like to point out something I mentioned earlier in this thread about the Paint Splatter articles in White Dwarf: They have gotten a lot better at presenting realistic painting examples to players, and in trying to actually encourage people towards painting better. The biggest point here is that they actually present what could be considered non-professional looking painted models, with full guides on how to achieve them. As appose to offering a guide and then presenting models that never quite looked like they actually followed the steps, which I feel is far more encouraging to follow instructions and get the results you see rather than potentially falling short and having only questions as to why theirs looks better.

It is interesting that they are focused rather much on their model ranges, but the White Dwarfs usually have quite a bit of content devoted to game related material. With the majority of what isn't being what amounts to them trying to pitch products to readers :ghost: But that's how it goes.

As a Sisters of Battle player, I immediately thought to convert this model into Saint Celestine...
That could be.. interesting. Using the existing armored torso with like, a head/weapon swap are you talking? Or a bit more extensive than that?

Will it not be that big even for an armored sci-fi lady?
The body may be slightly bulked out, but I don't think it would look too poorly converted. Plus as far as base-size goes, one could easily make a fitted base within the larger base that could be removed to hold a more appropriate base with the main model, and still get the cool swirly-effect/scenic style larger base. And that would be rather awesome.
 

Menkeroth

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That's a hopeful viewpoint, but not bad. Although I'd also like to point out something I mentioned earlier in this thread about the Paint Splatter articles in White Dwarf: They have gotten a lot better at presenting realistic painting examples to players, and in trying to actually encourage people towards painting better. The biggest point here is that they actually present what could be considered non-professional looking painted models, with full guides on how to achieve them. As appose to offering a guide and then presenting models that never quite looked like they actually followed the steps, which I feel is far more encouraging to follow instructions and get the results you see rather than potentially falling short and having only questions as to why theirs looks better.
Aye, but people say nowadays it's not that many articles about the game and universe in WD, but it's rather more advertising type. Is it true?
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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That's a hopeful viewpoint, but not bad. Although I'd also like to point out something I mentioned earlier in this thread about the Paint Splatter articles in White Dwarf: They have gotten a lot better at presenting realistic painting examples to players, and in trying to actually encourage people towards painting better. The biggest point here is that they actually present what could be considered non-professional looking painted models, with full guides on how to achieve them. As appose to offering a guide and then presenting models that never quite looked like they actually followed the steps, which I feel is far more encouraging to follow instructions and get the results you see rather than potentially falling short and having only questions as to why theirs looks better.

It is interesting that they are focused rather much on their model ranges, but the White Dwarfs usually have quite a bit of content devoted to game related material. With the majority of what isn't being what amounts to them trying to pitch products to readers :ghost: But that's how it goes.



That could be.. interesting. Using the existing armored torso with like, a head/weapon swap are you talking? Or a bit more extensive than that?



The body may be slightly bulked out, but I don't think it would look too poorly converted. Plus as far as base-size goes, one could easily make a fitted base within the larger base that could be removed to hold a more appropriate base with the main model, and still get the cool swirly-effect/scenic style larger base. And that would be rather awesome.
Basically just a head/weapon swap. If I fancy anything else at the time, I may do that too.
 

Tawg

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Aye, but people say nowadays it's not that many articles about the game and universe in WD, but it's rather more advertising type. Is it true?
Yes. It's been a bit more obvious with AoS too. Lately in the WD they have had very much central focus on the newest release and "How cool it is!" advertising the awesomeness of the things. Basically they do 2-4 pages for a unit and have upwards of 8-10 pictures, some larger and many smaller detail shots, and they explain all the parts of the model (OH look at the sweet Meatripper axe the Khorne carry, IT RIPS MEAT!) with small, and often pitiful it feels lately, interjections of fluff about the why and how they have certain aspects. I mean, it's like a quarter fluff-related details on a unit, and three fourths "Hey buy this, it's really sweet!". Although they do have articles beyond what amounts to the latest thing you can buy.

At the beginning of AoS releases MUCH of the fluff and side story they were putting out was exactly what was already spoiled by various sources, so it felt slightly re-hashed. Granted those things were "new" from GW, and the people spoiling them probably got those spoils from WDs in one way or another, so it makes sense. But lately the story/fluff portions have been a bit fresher, although they are fairly small.

Back when AoS wasn't the primary focus of the WDs (Due to release schedules) and 40k was, there was a LOT of really cool things in the WD. There were still blurbs about the new releases like there is now, but they had tons of like, scenario play sections of like 3-4 pages that detailed a set up, alternative victory conditions and such, special rules, all for a new battle. And those were really really cool. With AoS however, there is much less of that sort of thing, and I feel that the "replacement" in their mind is simply putting in every issue the full Warscroll for the unit in print that released that week/next. Sort of a hype to show you how cool the unit is or why you'd want to buy it, more "Wow this is cool right?". But that aspect is much less awesome than some of the more unique play suggestions they offered previously.

There was one WD a while back, maybe 3-4 in from the release of AoS, that had a sort of "Alternative" play, that offered an entirely unique game. It was an interesting game where you dealt out cards in a like, 4x4 grid and you played with a group of skinks & 1 carnasaur vs a Skaven Hell Abomb. Basically the numbers on the cards from a normal deck had a handful of mechanical aspects (There were "movement" types were you could only move up in value on card facings) and the game was a cat-and-mouse style where the Lizardmen had to stop the Rampaging Abomb. It was very unique, and had no relation to any sort of WHFB or AoS, but rather just a little thing to do with your models that was kind of story related and interesting. It was fairly interesting, IMO. But after that I have seen nothing of that sort in their issues.

They also constantly have Paint Splatter, with the newest models on showcase/explained how to paint. And they have articles related to various other things, a few 40k things lightly peppered in, lately in Armies on Parade pre-coverage/hype. Which I mean, some of the stuff they show off about the people who make very awesome Army on Parade style set ups is.. it's awesome. But it hasn't been quite as much depth on 40k, for obvious reasons.

Oh, and I forgot they have almost always at least one page for Forge world things. And one page talking about new book releases. And at the end of every issue there is a 2-page "quick sheet" with like.. it sort of mirrors "the good and the bad of the week" style articles in some magazines, except they are only covering their own things, and nothing is bad. They have a "Bit of the week" and show off some random part of a kit that they think (Or readers) is cool, they have a weapon of the week, a Reader's model of the week, every week (That is kind of cool, that people can submit their models for that and get in the WD), they have a 1-shot question with Grombrindal now, which use to be more of a full article, and they usually have a Regiment of the Renown, which is like the user submitted model but for a unit.

It feels a little shill-y sometimes, but my biggest grip is usually the hackney writing more than the fact that they are trying to sell me things. There are often very cringe worthy comments in the issues. But I think they are decently worth getting, and possibly my favorite aspect of getting them being just getting up to my FLGS to look around and possibly talk to some people/store guys. It's just something to do, but I doubt I'd want a subscription delivered to my door for the same reason, it'd take away the communal aspect of going to get them.

I will say the issues involved with 40k were much more solid than what they've presented with AoS. But I imagine much of it is just still trying to build hype for the game/Stormcast/"Bloodbound" and such, plus the various campaign books they've released so far. Often the articles/looks into those books will be straight copies of pages FROM the books, so if you get those you can feel like the information is a bit re-hashed like I mentioned before. I have a FLGS that is kind enough to leave at least one copy of every book they order out of the cling-wrap, for full reading preview, and that is awesome of them. I've actually bought all the hard-cover books thus far from them (With the Dreadhold being the exception), and I can't complain. But I do hope they start putting unique/interesting articles into the WDs about AoS rather than just Warscrolls, since they offer those for free already, it just feels like less in there, ya know? Where as the WDs with special scenarios in 40k are unique and often worth owning so you can play out fun/interesting battles.

Hopefully that isn't too long of a reply :ghost:
 

Menkeroth

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Maybe a bit long but I've got lots of information from it, thank you for such detailed answer :) I too hope they will make it more interesting, but it's no wonder it is made the way we know now. It's always been up to us to make our hobby the way we want and feel, especially when the times of "create the Land Raider from the trash" were finally gone. I've drawn lots of inspiration from the old WDs when I was collecting my CSM, but now I wonder if new players and hobbyists can do the same?
 
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As you possibly know, a new Age of Sigmar campaign(?) book is out - "Quest for Ghal Maraz". There is a leaked page which mentions Nagash - not much, but better than nothing! (Sorry for the full size, it appears to be the only way to make it readable)

 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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Interesting! It's good that Nagash returns back to action. Maybe the forces of Undeath will receive more attention that we've thought...
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
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Dec 4, 2011
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579
It's a shame that they are using so many characters from the world that was, this was a chance to have a clean break and yet GW couldn't bring themselves to go all the way. Archaon killed Nagash in his own realm?!
There is some excuse how all the old characters can still be alive; having been flung through dimensions or the realm of chaos but it just feels cheap to me
Take Gelt who died before everything got enveloped, he in no way should be about in AoS yet you can almost guarantee he will.
 

Menkeroth

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I don't think GW appreciates this but they have to - they can't just ignore lots of heroic miniatures, especially the most epic like Nagash or Archaon. But they already bring in their own new heroes and they certainly will keep it coming.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
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Dec 4, 2011
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579
They should get some attention though shouldn't they? Phasing out of the older kits to go with the newer look seen on the iron drakes? There is also the bit about them riding lava beasts or something.
I would love to see the non stormcast good guys (aelfs, duradain(?) and humans) just as a shattered combined force you could use.
Although I am a bit more interested in what we end up like.
Mostly fluff wise I don't want manfred, Vlad, kemmler or krell to come back; not because I don't like them but because and especially in Vlads case I fell their stories are done.
Let's have some light shed on Erikan Crowfiend from the end times novels for example.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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Aye, new heroes will surely be. It just needs some time. Dwarves (or duardin by GW now, I assume it's made up from the old Scandinavian dwergar, or dwarves in English) certainly will get someone from the red slayers or other new dwarves, riding lava beasts maybe, yes. As with the elves I do hope they won't drastically change their style but will make the old models in accordance with the existing one. In any case we have to wait while GW shapes the new world and the old factions, although Chaos is surely the same. Also I'd assume the old heroes remain mostly in order to play the battles of the world-once-was, so we'll surely get lots of new ones.
 

Tawg

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Also, I'd just like to mention that the White Dwarf following my post about WDs, in which I stated they didn't present any "interesting scenarios" involving AoS like they do with 40k, had a scenario included. I thought it was a bit funny that the issue immediately following me suggesting they don't would have that. Although unfortunately their "battle plans" remain a fair bit more shallow than I would really like to see. They seem to remain as fairly simple (and loose) army suggestions with a little bet of set-up modifications, and the biggest "change" to the base game they bring is the unique Command Abilities granted by the Scenario to either General.

This WDs feature was the Celestant-Prime, and it references an epic fight between this hero and a Bloodthirster. The specifics of the Battleplan are slightly more vague however, as one player must include the Celestant-Prime, and the other can be any other army that stands in his way. The Command abilities grant the Celestant-Prime the ability to give re-rolls to all failed hits to all friendly models within 10" (Including himself), and the Opposing General gains a 5" AoE that grants all units in range re-rolls to charges and re-rolls of 1 To Hit if they charge that turn. More unimpressive though is that the objectives are literally just kill each other, with slightly more flavor injected into how they describe it.

Although other Battleplans do present a fair bit more of an objective, I am just sad to see they aren't making the game more engaging than your imagination of wanting to see epic battles played out. Because, it's cool and all, but I really wish the game had mechanics that spurred the imagination too. Because I don't think AoS is void of depth in game play, but it's like the depth of Chess, mastering the mundane. I just wish they would bring more pull into that aspect of the game, with more scenario based coolness, or a set of rules about running scenario chains, or something.

Also I have Quest for Ghal Maraz, although I haven't had a chance to look it over that much. They are nice books, although I don't know if I'll be getting the Stormcast Eternal one (Who's joking, I probably will), but definitely not the chaos Dread-hold one, at least not right now :ghost:
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
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May 26, 2013
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I have the Quest for GM as well. The info about life and metal relms is worth it but I don't much like the Storm cast Eternals. They're very bland so I won't be buying the tome. On the plus side this probably means they're finally done with the Eternals and we can get some models for someone else next
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
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Dec 4, 2011
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579
Are models that haven't been rereleased still supplied with square bases?
Thinking of pickin up some skeletons archers next weekend.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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People say they have them for now. But I'm not certain GW won't change that in the long run with their new releases of the old models as well...
 
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