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Age of sigmar

Tawg

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Uh, ya know, I'm not sure the price off hand, maybe about 25$ maybe 30$~ish previously? It's hard to look up prices for items in the past, especially online since GW restricts the showing of their products by anyone but themselves. But I know for a fact that the box set use to come with 12 Dryads rather than 16. Plus the new kit with the whole army lot is discounted when you buy it as a whole "army" at once, which is almost surprising it's nearly $50 cheaper as a full set. But they usually do price the boxed bundles a little bit better, unlike the "web exclusive bundles" which often is just a one click purchase at the same price as all the items individually.

I can't say I'm not tempted to buy it. But I have literally so much going on already, I could not stand to add a whole new army all at once. But I probably will at some point. I LOVE those new(er) Dryad and Treemen models, so gorgeous.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
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Feb 3, 2015
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For £700 I could buy an 8th Edition army, or 2-3 forces for Age Of Sigmar. Or a car. Or a holiday. For something so non-essential to the game it's a bridge too far for me.

In all fairness, I could never be mistaken for a bastion of support for GW, and it does look pretty cool at least, but my ambivalence ends there.
 

Malisteen

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I actually like the look of it, but the price is so high that the only people I can imagine getting it are store owners purchasing at wholesale price to have a themed table for events.

I really think they would be better off focusing on more affordable terrain that new players could reasonably get. Although, to be fair, there is some of that, too. The trees are still cheapish. The archway and dragonfate whatever aren't too bad. Even the portals are ok, considering the box comes with two of them.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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Dec 9, 2013
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1,315
For $1100... lol. I did really like the portals, but they sold out so incredibly fast. When I saw this new overly priced terrain, I thought "You guys already have fortress terrain and the whole set only costs like $200... WTF?"
 

Banat

Varghulf
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791
I think the bigger ones are massively overpriced but they were only ever intended for the same kind of buyer that would purchase a tau manta.

They look great. I've ordered a small tower and a large tower which will be playing a part in my armies on parade board. They're modular in a way that allows an almost infinite amount of set ups, even at smaller sized fortresses.

The portals are great. They will actually tactically alter gameplay as well.

The gate, occulum and dragonfate dais all look decent but i won't be getting.
 

Tawg

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For £700 I could buy an 8th Edition army, or 2-3 forces for Age Of Sigmar. Or a car. Or a holiday. For something so non-essential to the game it's a bridge too far for me.

In all fairness, I could never be mistaken for a bastion of support for GW, and it does look pretty cool at least, but my ambivalence ends there.
Naw, you don't have to want to support GW to buy something like that, you have to have an amazingly disposable income.

I like the stuff, but that is a bit over the top. Although I love the modularity of it all. The new wall-section-ruins style things (Occulum and Gate) are cool that they can be built together and all, or combined in different ways. If that keeps up and there is a whole slew of choices to build into interesting buildings, that will be very cool. The Portals are also decently priced for a pair IMO, and they offer interesting benefits to game play, so I appreciate it.

The Chaos Fortress is over the top. And I don't know what exactly they are hoping to achieve, considering they are releasing a hardcover book to accompany them for a whole set of rules revolving around those pieces? That's a little crazy, for people to want a full book plus nearly 1k in a single (granted modular) set of terrain. Although it may just be a case of settling for selling what they can, and with the book for sale, accepting that the customers will make their own scratch-built terrain but try to use that book for rules?

It's cool though. It's rather interesting how much terrain they have released since AoS dropped, I am curious if such a pace will keep up with the game as it continues, or if they are just doing a push early on to set a tone for the game or such? Because if they keep it up as they release armies releasing terrain that "thematically" fits what ever the campaign or army is about, that could lead to an interesting set up for the game in general.
 

Zephyr

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The new Chaos cool and definitely something I could see myself using in both Fantasy and 40K BUT at that price *hits breaks* no way. For that amount of cash I can build something far bigger and far cooler. Just going to take me a lot of time I probably do not have but I'd rather buy other stuff.

I also like the other AoS terrain but it's so clearly AoS you can only use it for that unless you heavily convert it and again, at that price, no thanks. Funny as I always considered the 40K modular terrain good value.

The prices of GW latest releases make me scratch my head, in particular as they wanted AoS to attract new players. This will just scare people away. Just look at the starting costs of other systems comparable to it and ask yourself if the quality of GW is really justifies the price. I don't think so, not anymore and the fact that most people think paying 26 pounds for a box of 16 plastics of a pretty bland evil-tree design is pretty good says more than enough. We GW vets are used to these ridiculous prices!
Truth be told, I'm guilty as well being a Forge World collector but after my 30K force is done I'm seriously not buying anything from GW anymore apart from their paints (unless they go nuts there too).
They just keep pushing the prices. They will not ever stop and in their eyes people stop buying because they are bored with the setting or somesuch nonsense. It's the prices and lack of communication you dolts!

If AoS fails it's not about the fluff or even about the rules but the insane pricing, tedious 'flavor of the month(s)' release schedule and total diregard for the costumer.
I'm not even a GW hater, I'm just saddened to see this company drive itself into the ground.
 

Dragonet

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Tawg I see where you're coming from, but at this price range I would need both too much money and the desire for GW to have it rather than anyone else.

Zephyr I completely agree. I would have expected any company going through such a radical overhaul of their range to market and advertise very cautiously; the simple fact of clicking the link and having the highest price slapped in your face is an advertising disaster in my opinion.

I didn't revisit the site for 2 or 3 days, and only then did so out of curiosity; on scrolling down I admit there are more sensible points at which to buy in, but the strategy is obviously to convince you not to go cheap on just a coiple of wall sections or a tower, and upsell you on the bigger gear.

Again I must reiterate my bias against GW, but unsophisticated or pushy sales strategies are always a turn-off for me, I could never part with this much money unless I felt it would completely revolutionise my games, or represented serious value or some kind of bitz sale opportunity, or that it would help a decent, human-centric company to make a campaign work; maybe they could put a couple of company shares in the box?
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
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Dec 4, 2011
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579
The ruins of the realms set (£150) I'd think about as you get some nice bits in there, if it had the realmgates as well It would be more alluring.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
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Feb 3, 2015
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450
That's a reasonable set at 5 pieces, again very nice detail but way out of range for me. I was almost persuaded to buy a single Realmgate until I had my handbrake moment: the £85 set. Two arches, two gates. If I'm going to need 3 or 4 for a scenario; if a Dragonfate Dais or two will be necessary at some point... I can't trust that damned company not to pull something like that, and scenery does not have a separate, army-sized budget in my reality.
 

Tawg

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The prices of GW latest releases make me scratch my head, in particular as they wanted AoS to attract new players. This will just scare people away. Just look at the starting costs of other systems comparable to it and ask yourself if the quality of GW is really justifies the price. I don't think so, not anymore and the fact that most people think paying 26 pounds for a box of 16 plastics of a pretty bland evil-tree design is pretty good says more than enough. We GW vets are used to these ridiculous prices!
Truth be told, I'm guilty as well being a Forge World collector but after my 30K force is done I'm seriously not buying anything from GW anymore apart from their paints (unless they go nuts there too).
They just keep pushing the prices. They will not ever stop and in their eyes people stop buying because they are bored with the setting or some such nonsense. It's the prices and lack of communication you dolts!
Yeah, it is certainly true about people becoming use to the pricing, but at the same time, we're talking MSRP, which no one pays. The MSRP mark-ups on GW product (And the price they sell for on their site), is just stupid, and clearly not the price anyone pays. There is no one would would go for less than 20% off when that is the price any other online retailer will will offer, except for maybe supporting a local shop, but then at least GW isn't getting 100% of the insane mark-up in price, it goes to the FLGS.

But yeah, of course they will push prices. Business and society have a nasty tendency to focus on growth or increasing sales, and that's an "easy" push if they don't think it will hurt product volume.

But I mean, you can draw comparisons across other hobbies and still come to the conclusion that some of the prices aren't too crazy. Any video game is going to run 60-100$ (If you go Collectors or what ever release DLC), and most games don't contain too great of a run time, unless you enjoy open-sandbox random roaming without the story to drive the game. And when I think if I'd want to spend 60$ on a game, or some models, I'd usually want to get a unit or two rather than the single game. Although that depends on current projects or desire to develop a given army.

Tawg I see where you're coming from, but at this price range I would need both too much money and the desire for GW to have it rather than anyone else.
Oh, yeah, you need to like GW. I'm just saying the price is way more the hinderance than wanting to support GW. I usually don't mind most things they do, but I won't be getting the K-razy-K-aos-K-ortress! anytime soon. It probably helps that I don't care about Chaos that much.

Again I must reiterate my bias against GW, but unsophisticated or pushy sales strategies are always a turn-off for me,
Yeah, I agree with that, but I'm a bit less apprehensive about passive pushes like the organization of their online store. It doesn't bother me to see the "highest price" items at the top, typically that is to my interest, as I'm looking for an individual item that is in the higher range, and I don't want to sift though pages of character or bits or transfer sheets. It's more of an issue in the 40k side, where most armies are fairly fully developed. Plus with the addition of the "ebook" paint guides and what not on their site, those are annoying to click past more than anything IMO.


But really guys, how is the biggest issue not the fact that all of their display pieces they put together and have for all this new Chaos Fortress have the MOST GLARINGLY OBVIOUS seams/joints where the layers of the towers are stacked together? That drives me nuts that they couldn't even be bothered to invest any time in polishing their hobby side of those before putting them for display.
 

Dragonet

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That is a very good point Tawg, I hadn't even looked at the build quality; if they haven't sorted the moulds I guess they have to display those inadequacies in order to avoid accusations of false advertising?
 

Zephyr

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Didn't even notice that Tawg but now that you did...ugh. It's like Forge World painting (seriously some of the paint jobs there are horrible and like the building I feel this is due to the extreme rush behind products to get them out there and make money).
You make a good point about pricing and the comparison with video-games is dead on. IMO another horrible overpriced product and I agree if you compare value, not money-wise but in terms of what you get out of it, I would too rather invest it in miniatures.
As long as people are willing to pay money for it companies will not go down in price and who can really blame them?

Myself, I have what you'd call brand-loyalty. I can stick with a brand for ages and they are allowed to mess up now and then. GW have been stacing one mistake on top of the other the last eight or so years and no matter how much I like their products their decision-making (headless chicken on a colored mat South Park-style) and pricing is driving me away. I no longer feel the need to start another army and man, except for Dwarfs I have played every army out there across their entire range.
My loyalty is so terrible that I'm going to finish up what I've already got before flipping the proverbial bird at them and even after that I will probably still buy some paint now and again and keep playing. I will just not buy anymore models. Another thing GW needs to think about, what to do with all those folks who have finished their armies? You need to attract new players and make it enticing enough to start another project. They used to get this right.
 

Tawg

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Didn't even notice that Tawg but now that you did...ugh. It's like Forge World painting (seriously some of the paint jobs there are horrible and like the building I feel this is due to the extreme rush behind products to get them out there and make money).
You can not un-see! There are so many terrible errors though. There is a model in the color picture pages of the Necron Codex that clearly has a huge paint chip damage, and it's in their section showing off the models! And I never saw it, but my FLGS guy told me on the box image of a unit once, they had two of the same (Left/right) arm glued onto a single model, making it hilariously busted/wrong.

That is a very good point Tawg, I hadn't even looked at the build quality; if they haven't sorted the moulds I guess they have to display those inadequacies in order to avoid accusations of false advertising?
Yeah, being more "true" to what you get if you just slap them together and dry brush the thing up certainly makes sense. Although I don't know if that is their attempt to avoid a "Product must be assembled" issue where people are like "Why does your's look different?" or if it was more in line with what @Zephyr said with rushing and.. not giving a sh!t.

I mean, it's not like super horrible. It looks semi-respectable, but it's the sort of thing that kills me personally, because I view the hobby as more of an art, so I want perfection in all things where possible.

Interestingly enough, when you mention the divide between what someone will get in the end and how it's presented by GW, it reminds me of the new Paint Splatter articles in White Dwarf. I always use to think the painting articles in there were far too simplified/remedial, and that the "end result" images they showed always seemed to reflect far more detailed work! But lately I have noticed that the models presented in the Paint Splatter section are the exact ones they paint up in the steps they describe, so there is no "Hey that isn't what it looks like!" at the end that I previously noted. And it is a fair bit of difference, because in the same issue you can see other models painted to a higher quality standard and they are their own, and the Paint Splatter "show case" models are legit what would happen if you followed their steps presented. So it's really cool that they moved in that direction, because it use to bother me about their painting articles.

@Zephyr yeah, I mean I dunno. I like the models GW puts out, in general. I don't think they are a magnanimous company, by any means, but I don't usually find their prices too off putting. I mean, some of the kits going as high as 160$ (Necron Obelisk?) kind of makes me think twice.. but then I find them online for much less by retailers who are far more sensible, or second hand for far less.

That's one of the things I consider, personally, when valuating the prices on models and such, that I'm not sure if other people consider? Built/unbuilt models are valued at different prices in my head. Like, when I eBay, I usually shoot for $1 or less for generic troops (Especially in horde-y armies, like zombies or Gaunts for Nids) and if they are built/painted I would never go higher than $1 per. But when I see a lot of models for over a $1, but completely un-constructed? I instantly am more willing to accept higher prices. And if you look towards GW models they normally aren't priced much higher than twice my "lowest common price point" at MSRP, and again no one is paying MSRP. I mean, I guess you can invert that logic though, and say that people on eBay or trading-sites are generally going for recovery of about half what they put in. And that's a fair point, because obviously supply/prices of the original product determine the value people look to sell for second hand.

As an aside
What really puts me on tilt is all of the eBay/painting services that offer "Pro" painted models, but then they have images of their finished products with glaringly obvious mold lines or seams not green stuffed like they OUGHT to be! WHAT THE FRICK! And somehow they sell their models? And the fact that people instantly love the quality/look of models simply done with Air Brushes, like "Oh wow, what a great glow effect HOW DID YOU DO IT?!" when its just.. air brushing lighter colors on a model? How can that possibly encourage people to buy sh!tty over priced painted models?! What ever.

Brand loyalty though isn't a thing for me. I buy what I think looks nice, or what ever my friends are in for playing as a group. I have gotten into a ton of table-top games because of this, but it's always about what my friends and I are looking to play, not what company we care to buy from. And in my humble opinion, GW does make some of the best models out there. I have never found it worth to buy into Mantic models as replacements for any of the GW counterparts. Although some of those GW originals are not worth buying either (Blood knights.. UHG), but I still find GW models some of the best. Since Malifaux started their 2E range of models, their quality has been OFF THE CHARTS! Insanely actionable and detailed. One of the biggest pit-falls being very fidgety parts that aren't as easy to assemble without great care (EDIT: Oh, and static modeling). But that isn't too much of a bother, and they look SO COOL. So I have to admit that much of Malifaux's stuff has drawn me to it just on the basis of pure awesome. But I don't really know many other modeling companies that offer anything that really inspire me as much at all. Warmahordes style isn't poor, nor their quality, but it doesn't really jump out at me as awesome. Though some other 3rd parties that make models "suitable" for generic fantasy or such have been rather good, notably Raging Heroes, Avatars of War, and Studio McVey. Though there are some others worthwhile. But none are so much cheaper than GW to bring me to the "slap in the face" moment that GW is charging absurd prices.

Might just be me though.

I do agree that GW has some pretty shady/poor choices though. Most recently with End Time hard covers leading straight into.. obsolete. I hadn't been following the game (WHFB that is) until a week before AoS launched, so it wasn't a hard blow to me, but that seems fairly poor taste. Although I would say the books have a bit of value beyond being a game-play supplement with story lines and lore and fluff and all, but that is still a pretty sad thing to do.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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Aye, this is almost as big as Nagash, though Nagash is way more awesome. But it keeps up with the pace GW makes, so... could something surprise more than the Chaos Dreadhold?
 

Tawg

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Aye, this is almost as big as Nagash, though Nagash is way more awesome. But it keeps up with the pace GW makes, so... could something surprise more than the Chaos Dreadhold?
Yeah, that's the first thing I thought when I saw the price (It having to be as big as Nagash, I mean).

I don't mind the model, and having "options" to hold the hammer/scepter in different poses is like.. ok. But it feels so.. I don't know.

I mean I like the way it looks, and I wouldn't mind having one (Just one, since it says so!), but I feel so underwhelmed by the customization options, ya know? Like, the Treeman Ancient they released at, what 60$?, is a super awesome model, and amazingly detailed and offers a handful of options. But the Celestial Prime (Or what ever his name is) is a fairly static model, which is my same complaint for Nagash, as sweet as he looks. By the way Nagash still blows the doors off this guy rules wise, I think he's better than any character.. like ever. And I'm not saying that because I play Undead.

But yeah. It's real questionable. I enjoy some of the aesthetics of the Stormcast, but I dislike lack of options on such a huge kit.

Granted, looking around, other companies offering similar scale (Size or price) models don't really bring too much to the table. Wrath of Kings (New C'MON game), Infinity, and Malifaux all have nothing on that scale of model and their prices reflect as much (with models topping out around 30-40$ at most for single elite type units). Warmahordes on the other hand has a number of "Gargantuan" scale models that range into prices $130 or more, and those suffer the same bold aesthetic choices that preclude interest if you simply don't like the style of the army. And many of Privateer Press's models offer no customization at all, with the only variation being the 3-5 poses they have sculpted for a given unit of infantry at best. The ones in the price range of Nagash/C-Prime also are static in build option, such as Legion's, Menoth's, or Cryx's options (Of which there is a single model in that "size" category per faction).

I feel a little like I'm trying to push GW saying this, but honestly, when you look at options there aren't terribly many. Compared to the quality of the sculpts, the ease (Almost always polystyrene plastics, which are extremely easy to alter) both for building and customizing on your own, and, sadly the price/size of kits, most especially considering how modular the kits are (All arms can be swapped out, different weapon choices?).

Is there really any other company that offer as much in their models?

Now I understand if the complaint is primarily from the point of view that the game is trash. If that is your view -- and the primary reason you play -- then I understand now caring to buy into their models. But if you're in it for the hobby, GW is honestly some of the better stuff out there. Although I'd love for someone to show me comparable quality/priced models from another company.
 

Menkeroth

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I totally agree with you. It's not the best GW model so far, and I hope new models won't have so few options. I hope it's just the Stormcast who are purposefully done this way (people say the boxed ones are much more nice). And, anyway, it's true nobody has models of such quality and scale (especially both) in fantasy or sci-fi genres. Even with this so generic high fantasy gold-armored warriors. And certainly nobody has ever such models as the new khornates, which are extremely violent, dynamic and chaotic. I hope they will bring in something this much for Tzeentch.
 
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Draykorinee

Grave Guard
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Sep 10, 2014
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213
I just find these models to be beyond the vast majority of painters, its a total waste. They're aiming their game more at newbies and casual gamers (imo) yet their models continue to be more and more intricate and the price is still much higher than most competitors.
As a father of two I can't imagine for a second letting my kids anywhere near these models they are producing for AoS, they are making a less niche game with far 'nichier' models. Thats not a word I know, but I can't think of an alternative right now.
I couldn't be more confused by GW direction these last few months if I tried.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
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Nov 11, 2013
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934
yet their models continue to be more and more intricate
It's their tendency many moons ago, and why not? Most competitors don't have such a degree of details, though it's not always a justification for the price, of course, but the price is made in order to supply not only sculptors or designers but also lots of different managers. They all want their share.
and the price is still much higher than most competitors.
Disagree. Most competitors have similar or even higher prices, and it's not mentioning the more ancient and prolific companies like Dragon, Italery or Tamiya.
As a father of two I can't imagine for a second letting my kids anywhere near these models they are producing for AoS, they are making a less niche game with far 'nichier' models. Thats not a word I know, but I can't think of an alternative right now.
I couldn't be more confused by GW direction these last few months if I tried.
I'd say it's not good. They should decide on their own - Jedem das Seine and all that.
 
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