Age of sigmar

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najo said:
For me, the lack of regimental and no point values are very frustrating. I like the idea of simple rules and the living system of war scrolls and all the mechanics online and free. The lore is intriguing me and the models are pretty amazing. Yes, even the Stormcast. They are the souls of dead humans taken by Sigmar and given new life as his daemons, being reborn each time they die but losing their humanity little by little. That's pretty awesome.

Still, I understand and feel everyone's anger over this.

In the long term, a system like this is ideal for the game. It removes so many barriers to entry that if there game takes off, new players can hop in nearly effortlessly. That is a good thing.

Likewise, 4 pgs of rules isn't bad if those rules are easy to learn and difficult to master. Something akin to chess. Before you denounce the rules, there is complexity in there. Weapons, units being put into combined formations, positing, holding objectives, all will matter in this game. The rules allow for some interesting real life tactics because of how free form they are. Spears can fight over another unit, cavalry can do hit and run, units can be put into all types of shapes and control places on the board. It may not be perfect, but there is apply in such a small set of rules.

Also, already ideas are going around about tournament play. One or more battalions and 50 total wounds is one idea for example.

Then there is the fact that this is a starter set, that Darnok on warseer swears a big book is coming in August, that GWs own ads for Age of Sigmar have stated this game will have a new type of e-book... All points to way more coming still. I don't think we have all the pieces yet.

There is a chance we are looking at starter rules. The FLGS only know what their reps tell them, and the GW reps only know about a week or two ahead. No one who would leak knows what is coming in August yet.

Likewise, that statement from a disgruntled GW employee was fake. I saw the leak, and he flat out said there 9 realms are not part of the setting and was a false rumir, but they are. There are eight realms tied to the winds of magic and the reason of chaos. The nine realms are dead center in the leaks of the setting book.

There is so much unknown and misinforming. We need to wait things out to see the whole picture. 8th edition will still be there and can still be played in the meantime. Likewise, it won't kill any of us to try Age of Sigmar and see what is good and what is bad about it. The game is free, I mean come on.

Personally, I'm waiting to see the warscrolls then playing it a bunch before I decide if it's for me. I will even wait till august to see if a more robust rule system surfaces. Then if I don't like it, I will keep playing 8th, sans end times magic and unbound rules.
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Oh come on, we KNOW that there isn't going to be an update. The rules in the box are THE RULES - THERE WILL BE NO "BIG BOOK" - that's why they're releasing them for free online. This whole "wait and see" attitude is just silly because there's nothing to wait for - we've already seen almost everything leaked, and it all looks like poop.

This is not "ideal for the game" at all, because "the game" you are talking about - WARHAMMER FANTASY BATTLES - has gone the way of Necromunda and Epic 40k - it's a discontinued relic, at least in GW's eyes. THEY HAVE DESTROYED FANTASY to replace it with this abomination of a "game", which has non-functioning rules outside scenarios which they will release and make you pay for no doubt, just like the whole scrolls thing they've been doing for ages now. This is by far the worst case scenario.

But the worst part about it is that people STILL BUY IT. What is wrong with them! Have they got no standards? Are they so easily impressed?
 
We live in an age of commercialism; nearly everyone is trying to sell something. Even water is not free!
And for a magazine that costs around £2.50 that is a fair amount to give away.
 
El Syf said:
We live in an age of commercialism; nearly everyone is trying to sell something. Even water is not free!
And for a magazine that costs around £2.50 that is a fair amount to give away.
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"We are living in an age of commercialism" only if you want to allow your life to be ruled by commercialism. Doesn't matter if water "isn't free" because that's a necessity - this is a stupid luxury we're talking about, a hobby consisting of little plastic soldiers that you paint and play games of pretend with.

Look, GW have proven that the only thing they pay any attention to is the influx of money into their fat pockets - nothing is sacred to them at all. All must be sacrificed in the name of PROFITS! So, the only way you can tell them that what they're doing is BS is by not buying it - it's as simple as that. And don't be deluded by false senses of loyalty to GW because you grew up with them, because they don't give a damn.

At the end of the day though it's your life and you can do what you want. I just think that this is the final straw and that whatever happens GW have damned themselves in the eyes of a very large number of people and placed doubt into the minds of the rest.
 
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All the rules have been shunted into the warscrolls. Until we see those, we don't see the game. And the leaked ones are all starter box content...no surprise at all that it's simplistic.

Age of Sigmar is clearly meant to be a product that GW can build on. There is potential here. The game system we have here is clearly very different from the fantasy that we're used to, but I am not actually sure how bad it really is. Measuring from models is idiotic (and we won't be doing that), but there is at least potential in everything else.

I have an 8th edition tournament this weekend. After my third game on Saturday I will be downloading the new warscrolls and playing some test games with the folks there. It costs me literally nothing, and I am not a person who judges things before I learn enough to know what I am talking about.


Also sorry to be blunt, but I get so fucking sick of people complaining on and on about "profit seeking corporations!" Yes...GW cares about their profit margins. So does every other miniature company on the planet. And every other kind of company, for that matter, from your ma-and-pa grocery store to transnational megaliths like Apple or Viacom. However those companies are also made up of *people*, many of whom are very passionate about the products they put out. And unless you've been living under a rock, behind all the bland corporate-speak and PR talking points is a miniatures company full of people who are very clearly passionate about their minis, their art, and their fluff. Just because you don't agree with all of their artistic / strategic decisions doesn't make them some kind of soulless demonic engine of fun-sucking destruction.

Will Age of Sigmar suck? We'll see on Friday. Or in three months time, when an expansion that comes out to "fix" all of the things we hate. As happens with so many games that have rocky starts. GW put a lot of money into this...they're not just going to abandon it.
 
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Short version: my wait-and-see stance is more like an indefinite holding pattern. I finished any WHFB GW purchases I needed soon after Darnok opened the gates after Xmas. My 4 armies are done as far as GW purchases go (anything still not purchased is coming from Titan Forge). So I'm at liberty to wait until the dust settles. And if it doesn't settle, GW can discontinue their whole fantasy-leaning production and I won't have missed anything.

So I guess my stance is "come what may." I'm in no hurry.
 
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Undying Scourge said:
Oh come on, we KNOW that there isn't going to be an update. The rules in the box are THE RULES - THERE WILL BE NO "BIG BOOK" - that's why they're releasing them for free online. This whole "wait and see" attitude is just silly because there's nothing to wait for - we've already seen almost everything leaked, and it all looks like poop.

This is not "ideal for the game" at all, because "the game" you are talking about - WARHAMMER FANTASY BATTLES - has gone the way of Necromunda and Epic 40k - it's a discontinued relic, at least in GW's eyes. THEY HAVE DESTROYED FANTASY to replace it with this abomination of a "game", which has non-functioning rules outside scenarios which they will release and make you pay for no doubt, just like the whole scrolls thing they've been doing for ages now. This is by far the worst case scenario.

But the worst part about it is that people STILL BUY IT. What is wrong with them! Have they got no standards? Are they so easily impressed?
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I think there are two key things to remember....

1. The Lotr range is dead, the films are all out and there won't be any more, and was a smallish scale skirmish game. Ultimately, what I'm saying is I believe, and others do as well, that AoS is the replacement for Lotr.

2. Of course they'd say "THIS IS IT, there's nothing coming later" because they want you to buy the product that they're promoting at the moment. If they said "Well, there might be a ninth edition coming later" then everyone would wait to invest in THAT, and would be counterintuitive from a sales point of view.
 
The tactical advantage from combat comes from:

  1. Player's Initiative AKA who's turn is it! Since he gets to choose his first Unit and attack a target (in Close Combat, since all forces involved get to strike, regardless of who has the turn. I got confused earlier and believed the turn player got to attack mercilessly without retaliation. I was wrong). Pressing 2 fronts actually gives a sort of advantage now.

  2. Unit composition and formations: yes, Melee weapons have a Range now, so forming them up in single lines is the way to go for Swords. Maybe 2 rows can get to strike with small models, like Skeletons / zombies (since they must be parked no closer than 1/2 inch and most sword-ish weapons have 1'' range). Then, Spear-wieldng dudes could get to strike, but I don't think I've seen spears as weapons before. Cavalry could merge here also.

  3. Each mini can now strike at any unit it prefers, making the whole process a bit messy if unprepared, but the Pile Up sub-step from the Combat Phase allows you to quickly re-organize your front, so you can maximize your attacks. We should be clever here as to not waste any, since no WS is used, basically a horde of Skeletons can fell Nagash if all 40 (just to remind us of old days, when 40 was a horde... T^T) by throwing all 40 attacks with a fixed To-Hit and To-Wound
As promised, once we get to look at the Undead warscrolls, we'll have this forum up and running with strategy and maybe army compositions now, since it is overly simplified.

good news is I just finished painting Isabella, and have the 4 von Carstein vampires ready to function as a 3-man-1-girl deathsquad, see how that works!

EDIT: Except Mannfred. He will always go to the front to eat some magic missiles first.
"Mannfred, you're on vanguard duty... yes, again!"
 
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Wouldn't be surprised if we see something more traditional in a 6-12 months time, though using round bases and round skirmish trays. Wouldn't really require anything other than a few books and some LotR-style movement trays...miniatures could be cross-compatible, as they are now.
 
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death said:
Wouldn't be surprised if we see something more traditional in a 6-12 months time, though using round bases and round skirmish trays. Wouldn't really require anything other than a few books and some LotR-style movement trays...miniatures could be cross-compatible, as they are now.
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I wouldn't care, if he was a "she" and she looked like that :D! (just sayin)

Also, I've found why having 40 1-man units instead of a 40-man unit will not suffice (rules-wise)

Sure, Wizards and any other 1-target effect will be hindered, since you can't cause multiple wounds to various models, having to target 1 by 1) however:

Player 1 charges with each and every 1-man unit, making 40 moves during his Charge Phase, and engages the 40-strong unit from player 2.

Once the combat phase begins, 1 of the 40 units gets to make an attack, luckily killing 1 model, now there are 40 vs 39.

Next, the enemy gets to attack, issuing and order for his 39-strong men to each attack what they will, let's assume assigning 1 model to attack another, thus, by the end of that round, they've killed 20 different models total.

then, it's Player 1's turn to assign a unit to attack, having only 1-man units, they're going to kill 1 by 1, while Player 2 gets to make many more attacks in each of his own... uhm... combat turns?.

Mass models are still advantageous. However, having multiple units are also viable as a tactic. Not too many, not too few.
 
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Demian said:
I wouldn't care, if he was a "she" and she looked like that :D! (just sayin)

Also, I've found why having 40 1-man units instead of a 40-man unit will not suffice (rules-wise)

Sure, Wizards and any other 1-target effect will be hindered, since you can't cause multiple wounds to various models, having to target 1 by 1) however:

Player 1 charges with each and every 1-man unit, making 40 moves during his Charge Phase, and engages the 40-strong unit from player 2.

Once the combat phase begins, 1 of the 40 units gets to make an attack, luckily killing 1 model, now there are 40 vs 39.

Next, the enemy gets to attack, issuing and order for his 39-strong men to each attack what they will, let's assume assigning 1 model to attack another, thus, by the end of that round, they've killed 20 different models total.

then, it's Player 1's turn to assign a unit to attack, having only 1-man units, they're going to kill 1 by 1, while Player 2 gets to make many more attacks in each of his own... uhm... combat turns?.

Mass models are still advantageous. However, having multiple units are also viable as a tactic. Not too many, not too few.
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I like how you are so desperate to find depth where there is none xD
 
Vampiric powers and war gear options I can see being removed to make it simpler.
Probably a ton of other stuff but if they do away with vampiric powers I think I might be done with them. I guess that's the breaking point for me.
 
I was just going to post the same thing. They also changed the organization of the website. You can search by 'race', 'faction', or 'grand alliance' the actual reason for this remains unknown. Why 'skeleton' is a race is beyond me. On the plus side we only have to share our 'grand alliance' with tomb kings so there are probably not going to be many cuts to our miniature ranges as we're the smallest 'grand alliance'.
 
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-tomb-kings-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-high-elves-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-lizardmen-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-orcs-and-goblins-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-ogre-kingdoms-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-skaven-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-warriors-of-chaos-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-wood-elves-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-the-empire-en.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-dwarfs-en.pdf

THE REST.
 
Wow, ive only started reading over the daemons compendium and I dont know what to think. There are going to be alot of models dying in this game really fast. Could make the game really fast paced and exciting.
 
Okay I have been trying to stay optimistic, but that is something else.
Sod the rules enough has been said about them.
How has Kemler for example made it through when he got trounced by Arkhan before the old world went pop?
Feeling really rather deflated at this turn of events. Nice to know I was right about vampiric powers and war gear in a way lol.
Also Isabella is hitting on 3+ and wounding on 4+ with a wickedly sharp stiletto...
Perversely Krell has the best save in our list tied with Nagash on 3+ And actually seems worth taking.
 
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Blood Knights are absolute killing machines now. 3 wounds each, they have the Hunger which guarantees a wound restored to ALL MODELS in the unit if the UNIT killed at least one enemy model in combat. 4+ save, 3+ vs attacks without Rend, 3 ATTACKS EACH WITH FRICKING D3 DAMAGE PER ATTACK ON THE CHARGE, 3+ to wound, 3+ to hit, -1 Rend. My god. Combine that with Vampire Lord's command ability which gives +1 attack to a unit in 15"... potential damage output of 12 per model.

I may enjoy Age of Sigmar after all!
 
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Tbh Im loving some of it. Zombies ACTUALLY have a zombie bite mechanic. Corpse cart abilities boosted although still seems sqiishy. Blood knights have possibly had the biggest boost. can't see why you'd take black knights instead.
 
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