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Who's your favorite Mortarch?


  • Total voters
    39

El Syf

Vargheist
Dec 4, 2011
648
Eastbourne
I know I'm like a dog with a bone, but surely Abhorash, Gilles, the red duke, Elize and Erikan could be a cool little faction?
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
I'm not saying all of that should be done simultaneously, just giving examples of the many, many paths that are open for expanding the Death alliance and its personality lineup & leadership ranks, given just how anemic - one could even say 'skeletal' - they currently are.

And while Death isn't Chaos, Nagash is the lord of the dead, and his current narrative is specifically about trying to corrupt and control the souls of other gods' followers - chaos and otherwise - that those gods have been jealously keeping for themselves in violation of Nagash's rightful claim. The Stormcasts specifically have been the targets of his attempts, but recycled chaos champions have been explicitly mentioned as well, and the elven souls that Tyrion and Teclis are trying to pull back from Slaanesh, or that Alarielle has bound up in her revenants, definitely fall within the same general category.

Nagash has already developed blackstone shards specifically for the binding of such souls, so Death Faction counterparts for all of these units would only be a direct expansion of the current story progression.

And of course new characters are also a possibility, and I only don't list more of them because they'd be, well, new, so they don't exist to list as possibilities yet.

That said, unfortunately there's not a lot of room for new characters in the Age of Sigmar fluff, especially for the Undead. Where would they even come from? There are basically no 'normal people' anywhere from which to draw them. The Age of Sigmar realms aren't really a fantasy world. Civilization on Shyish has been all but wiped out, and the people who receive any focus at all in other factions are mostly immortals anyway, with very few named characters among them who might be turned at that.

I like it. A Mortarch for each faction.
The Nameless = Nighthaunt
First Flesheater = Flesheater
Krell = Deathrattle
Arkhan = Deathmage
Neferata = Soulblight
Mannfred = Deathwalker

The mannfred/deathwalker connection is pretty tenuous. And the Nameless is gone, a chaos traitor specifically destroyed in the End Times. And other than being somewhat ghostly himself, he doesn't really have any connection to the Nighthaunts - he worked mostly with zombies and mind-controlled living puppets in the End Times fluff. Anyway, I don't see them bringing him back, and wouldn't want them to.

Again, though, if you wanted an old world mortarch character to lead the Nighthaunts, Dieter would be the best fit, imo
 
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Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
I'm not saying all of that should be done
Nagash has already developed blackstone shards specifically for the binding of such souls, so Death Faction counterparts for all of these units would only be a direct expansion of the current story progression.
And it will be as it was in 40k with all Chaos stuff opposing to the non-Chaos stuff, like Orks and Chaos Orks, SM and CSM, Necrons and Chaos androids, even Tyranids? No, thanks.
That said, unfortunately there's not a lot of room for new characters in the Age of Sigmar fluff, especially for the Undead. Where would they even come from? There are basically no 'normal people' anywhere from which to draw them. The Age of Sigmar realms aren't really a fantasy world. Civilization on Shyish has been all but wiped out, and the people who receive any focus at all in other factions are mostly immortals anyway, with very few named characters among them who might be turned at that.
Fortunately, you are wrong, maybe even without a single chance to realize this :) in order to understand what I'm writing about just buy and read (or read at least spoilers and reviews) of the Shadows over Hammerhal to get to know how ordinary folk leaves and toils everyday. Not mentioning other, older hints at that in different novels and books, so your opinion is very outdated in fact :)

The mannfred/deathwalker connection is pretty tenuous. And the Nameless is gone, a chaos traitor specifically destroyed in the End Times. And other than being somewhat ghostly himself, he doesn't really have any connection to the Nighthaunts - he worked mostly with zombies and mind-controlled living puppets in the End Times fluff. Anyway, I don't see them bringing him back, and wouldn't want them to.
Mannfred is a vampire so no deathwalkes any time soon.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
Not being a thing doesn't necessarily preclude leading the thing. Mummies lead skeleton armies in the tomb kings book without being skeletons. If they wanted to include mummies in an expanded Deathrattle faction, that would be fine. If Mannfred did have more of a direct connection to zombies in particular, like if raising zombies was his #1 go to strategy and specialty, then sure, I could see putting him at the top of a revised deadwalker subfaction. But that isn't the case, his use of zombies is incidental, and if any unit is to be associated with him, it's Vargheists.

I have no idea what you're talking about with your 40k comment. There have never been chaos tyranids to my knowlede, chaos orks have only barely ever been a thing in the fluff and have never been a meaningful game play faction, and chaos androids, to the extent they exist or ever existed at all, aren't a counterpoint to necrons but rather an expansion of the dark mechanicus, while chaos space marines are the entire focus of chaos in that game/setting to begin with.

And frankly, nearly all undead are undead versions of creatures that were once part of other, non-undead factions and peoples. That's the entire point of undeath. That's it's whole gimmick, even more so than with Chaos. That's, like, literally the entire gimmick. If you throw out every undead thing that isn't just a necromantically corrupted version of something that was once alive and part of some other culture or faction, you're left with... what? Morghasts? Morghasts only, I think? Morghasts and Dread Abyssals maybe? Wait, no, the fluff for even those things is that they're necromantically corrupted versions of the divine/demonic servants of the old Nehekharan deities.

Ushabti and other possessed Tomb King's statuary, maybe. A subtheme that GW no longer even supports. I guess The ghasts & abyssals kind of count, because they're an undead version of things that didn't exist in the game before they were undead?

But still, I think objecting to undead versions of other factions units is kind of dropping the plot a bit. ;)
 
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Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
Not being a thing doesn't necessarily preclude leading the thing. Mummies lead skeleton armies in the tomb kings book without being skeletons. If they wanted to include mummies in an expanded Deathrattle faction, that would be fine. If Mannfred did have more of a direct connection to zombies in particular, like if raising zombies was his #1 go to strategy and specialty, then sure, I could see putting him at the top of a revised deadwalker subfaction. But that isn't the case, his use of zombies is incidental, and if any unit is to be associated with him, it's Vargheists.
Or blood knights, since he's a soulblight vampire.
I have no idea what you're talking about with your 40k comment. There have never been chaos tyranids to my knowlede, chaos orks have only barely ever been a thing in the fluff and have never been a meaningful game play faction, and chaos androids, to the extent they exist or ever existed at all, aren't a counterpoint to necrons but rather an expansion of the dark mechanicus, while chaos space marines are the entire focus of chaos in that game/setting to begin with.
Chaos Tyranids were in books, like in the Ragnar Blackmane series of William King where a nurgle daemon hacked tyranid synapse and controlled them, which was fun and thematic - corrupted, slimy and with lots of flies tyranids. Very sweet. Chaos orks remain even now in FFG books like Bloodboyz given up to Khorne and his bloodlust, and chaos androids were chaos corrupted androids when there were no necrons but were androids. Dark Mechanicus is something entirely different and much newer. And no, entire focus in 40k like it was always in FB are chaos demons. ;)
And frankly, nearly all undead are undead versions of creatures that were once part of other, non-undead factions and peoples. That's the entire point of undeath. That's it's whole gimmick, even more so than with Chaos. That's, like, literally the entire gimmick. If you throw out every undead thing that isn't just a necromantically corrupted version of something that was once alive and part of some other culture or faction, you're left with... what? Morghasts? Morghasts only, I think? Morghasts and Dread Abyssals maybe? Wait, no, the fluff for even those things is that they're necromantically corrupted versions of the divine/demonic servants of the old Nehekharan deities.
Not anymore since there are no nehekharan deities in Age of Sigmar, but I see your point. And while it's true, true is also the fact that too many undead creatures will be bad for models as they will be looking too close to alive models, so to speak, that's why, I guess, most undead are humans. That's why it's also great GW does not copy chaos forces like you probably would have done, for example, they gave Tzeentch and his disciples other units, not so like they gave Khorne or Nurgle.
Ushabti and other possessed Tomb King's statuary, maybe. A subtheme that GW no longer even supports. I guess The ghasts & abyssals kind of count, because they're an undead version of things that didn't exist in the game before they were undead?
More or less, I think. And yes, possessed statues are what is really great and I also think it's sad GW discountinued all that stuff. But maybe they will still return.
But still, I think objecting to undead versions of other factions units is kind of dropping the plot a bit. ;)
Perhaps, but plot is plot and models don't always go toe-to-toe with it.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
Personally, the 'haunted wood' is an interesting enough subtheme, and commonly enough associated with the undead, that a Death-faction counterpart to the Sylvaneth could be pretty cool. Wouldn't necessarily be my first choice, but not something I'd object to, either.

Undead stormcasts, however, are a major enough focus of the plot that I really would like to see them specifically.

They wouldn't have to (and probably shouldn't) look just like stormcasts. I picture them more as slightly smaller, wingless morghasts, wearing a somewhat more encased version of the Morghast-style layered & trimmed armor plates, with prominantly featured gemstones (the blackstone shards binding their souls to Nagash), and magic weapons channeling necrotically-tainted lightning. 'Blightning', if you will.

Call them 'Stormghasts', and put them in the Deathlords subfaction. Maybe a dual kit, 5-model infantry unit version, and a dracoth-scale 2-model monstrous cavalry kit, mounted on smaller, flightless Dread-Abyssal looking steeds, with again maybe a bit more armor in the morghast style, with stingers at the ends of their whip-like tails a la the necrosphinx. Add one or two hero kits, a hero version of the cav kit (or include hero option bits in it, as with the dracothian guard kit), maybe add a Stormghast mortarch as part of a second triple-mortarch kit (along with Isabella and Khalida, if I had my way), and 'Deathlords' would be a pretty respectably fleshed out mini faction.
 

Oppenheimer

Varghulf
May 26, 2013
743
I would disagree that dying in the the end times matters much. Drycha died and is back before the end and everyone else died in the final scene.
I agree that Mannfred was in deathwalker because I couldn't find another place for him. Where would you put him?
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
I would disagree that dying in the the end times matters much. Drycha died and is back before the end and everyone else died in the final scene.
I agree that Mannfred was in deathwalker because I couldn't find another place for him. Where would you put him?

Leave all the mortarchs in deathlords, I'd associate them with other subfactions thematically, but not actually shift them into those subfactions. Mannfred would obviously be associated with soulblight. Neferata could be, too, no reason they couldn't share, or she could be associated with a revised tomb king faction, or, like Arkhan, just stick to deathlords.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
For anyone whose assembled mortarch kits as Mannfred or Arkhan, if you have spares left over of the bits for neferata's steed's head that you're not planning on using for anything, I'm looking for them for a unit conversion project (link). Shoot me a private message if you might be interested in some sort of bits exchange.

Actually, I could use a spare of arkhan's steed's head as well if anyone has that, too.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
Leave all the mortarchs in deathlords, I'd associate them with other subfactions thematically, but not actually shift them into those subfactions. Mannfred would obviously be associated with soulblight. Neferata could be, too, no reason they couldn't share, or she could be associated with a revised tomb king faction, or, like Arkhan, just stick to deathlords.
Put Arkhan and Neferata into TK. lol Let Neferata/Khalida and Arkhan/Settra hash it out.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
Neferata & Khalida kind of hashed it out already. I'd be more interested in seeing them as friends or at least friendly rivals, last real heirs of their old civilization - or at least the last who hadn't deliberately set out to destroy it, last who might be interested in trying to rebuild something in its memory. Let the characters change and grow a bit.
 
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Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,863
Northern Italy
with 7,6,6 votes, it seems there's not an overall favorite Mortarch...
which tells about the fact that each one of them got its own peculiar style, suited for different tastes.
 

horrid

Zombie
Dec 23, 2009
17
I voted Neferata. Arkhan is the eternal servant; Nagash's Grand Vizier. He could have all all the raw power of his master but it would never belong to him. He autonomy always seemed in question as though he were a puppet doing Nagash's will.

Mannfred is another shadow of a greater power. Maybe it isn't that he is a minion of Vlad but that the Von Carstein as a whole simply aren't as much unless they are together. Collectively the Von Carstein bloodline feel like a love letter to a Hammer or Corman monster movie where the various vampire stories mesh with the tragic house of Usher. I really like them but Mannfred isn't enough by himself. For all the cunning he allegedly demonstrated over the years he seemed to exercise some pretty terrible judgement leading up to the end of the world.

I find Neferata the most interesting of the three. The eternal queen who has her finger in all of the nations. A supernatural spymaster in the Old World and pragmatic enough to build alliances when required in the next. So much more interesting than a servant or a thwarted conqueror.
 

benvoliothefirst

Grave Guard
Nov 22, 2011
278
Well THIS thread is awesome! I was hoping someone would point out the nine vs. the 3 in the original post. With the bride mortarch just released I think we've got a worthy challenger to the Nameless for leader of the nighthaunt. Excited to see the last figure released.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
Er, this is a fine bit of thread necromancy. And after we all just re-signed onto the forum ruleset to say, among other things, that we wouldn't do that. :p

Looking back at this thread, though, and... what a difference a year makes, right?
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
It is fine bit of threadomancy, but as it's on topic and still valid; ok with me! Even better, I love this threads like this, so it's been stickied!

I voted Arkhan, as for me as has an excellent blend of intrigue, intelligence, awesome magic skills and a decent model to boot. It is a pity for me though that he was portrayed as the willing servant. When we roleplayed in The Vampire Council (which I swear GW read and nicked some ideas from xd), we portrayed him as an immensely strong individual in his own right, who having been raised by Nagash was forced into servitude, and in fact had been working for years to free himself. That's not to say he allied himself with the "good" guys, he was more a faction for himself.

That said, I can't say I'm overly keen on any of the Mortarchs. Neferata was always a bit too snobbish for me, even though I do normally love the leading ladies :perv:

As for Mannfred, whilst granted he is an excellent schemer, for me I always felt he went that step too far to the point where it was almost Skaven list with his constant betrayals.

Vlad von Carstein, Mortarch of Shadow?
Is this something that I've missed or are you just teasing me? I'd love to see some of the older characters back. Isabella was mentioned and that would be a great choice if she was to step it up a little.

I do think that Heinrich Kemmler with his Cloak of Mists and Shadows should have been the new Mortarch for the Nighthaunt
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
It is fine bit of threadomancy, but as it's on topic and still valid; ok with me! Even better, I love this threads like this, so it's been stickied!

Good enough then. Though, could I request that you un-sticky the comp systems thread in the 'to war!' subforum? All of those systems have been completely replaced by the official matched play rules and points system.

That said, I can't say I'm overly keen on any of the Mortarchs. Neferata was always a bit too snobbish for me, even though I do normally love the leading ladies :perv:

i personally like that she's a bit full of herself. She is the queen of all vampires, after all. My problem with her is that GW never seens to know what to do with her, leading to frankly embarrassing showings in both End Times and the Realmgate Wars.

As for Mannfred, whilst granted he is an excellent schemer, for me I always felt he went that step too far to the point where it was almost Skaven list with his constant betrayals.

he's basically warhammer's version of Starscream, which makes jim amusing and endearing, but it does strain credulity that Nagash would keep him around.

Is this something that I've missed or are you just teasing me? I'd love to see some of the older characters back. Isabella was mentioned and that would be a great choice if she was to step it up a little.

It's hard to remember back, but iirc that was all speculation and spit-balling of ideas, nothing more. There were a lot of rumors in the last month or so that the mortarch of grief was going to be Isabella, but she turned out to be an entirely new character instead, which, honestly, is something Age of Sigmar in general and Death in particular kind of desperately needs more of, so that's probably all for the better.

I do think that Heinrich Kemmler with his Cloak of Mists and Shadows should have been the new Mortarch for the Nighthaunt.

Unfortunately, Kemmler's role in the End Times doesn't particularly allow for his return as a Death alliance hero of any sort.

There are several characters who could reasonably return. Khalida, Isabella, Dieter (who could have been the Nighthaunt mortarch, as that was basically his role in the End Times), Settra, and Abhorash all survived to the very end of the End Times, and might have found themselves among the few old world survivors who became the first residents of the mortal realms.

Krell and Ushoran have both been implied to still be kicking around by AoS fluff, even though Krell very much did die in the End Times, not that that's ever stopped him before. Ushoran in particular hasn't just been teased, but takes a central role in Flesh Eaters fluff, and will almost certainly appear as their own mortarch when and if Flesh Eaters ever get a revised battle tome with some actual new models.

Vlad absolutely died in the End Times, but Nagash brought him back from true death before, and could do so again. Though personally, I'd rather Vlad stayed dead, as his death in the End Times was particularly great, and I wouldn't want its impact lessened. Also because I'd like to see Isabella return as an important character in her own right one day, and that will never happen as long as vlad is around.
.........

All that said, while they certainly can, I don't think GW should keep relying on old world refugees to populate their AoS factions. We need brand new characters that can serve as proper viewpoints into the people and places of the mortal realms, characters personally invested in the realms, who players can invest in the realms by identifying with.

Obviously it's harder to come up with good new characters than it is to carry forward just those old characters that were already good, there will be more duds thus way, but imo it's needed, so I'm glad that's the direction gw opted to go with at least 2 out of the three new Nighthaunt named characters.

AoS lore has gotten a lot of love in the last year this thread's been quiet. Sure, some of the fleshing out has contradicted previous lore to the point of being retcons (the nature of Shyish in particular is very different from early descriptions), but still, there's a lot more meat to sink our teeth into, and we've actually seen some new characters who are interesting enough that they might be expanded into in-game named characters.

Tamra ven Drak would, imo, be a better mortarch for deathrattle than even krell. Her story in Undying King is probably the best of any character work for the undead in AoS thus far, and I desperately hope we haven't seen the last of her.

Keldrek has the makings of a fairly interesting character. Yes, he was only recently introduced as a generic knight of shrouds, but I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him elevated as the third nighthaunt named character, and even if he stays 'just' a knight of shrouds, I hope to see and hear more from him in the future.

Tarsus Bull-heart / Tarsem of Helstone, the first Stormcast soul Nagash successfully prevented from returning to Sigmar, was a relatively cool, if a bit flat, character who could easily be expanded into a compelling undead hero in game.
 

benvoliothefirst

Grave Guard
Nov 22, 2011
278
Apologies for the threadomancy, but glad it worked out! I second Tarsus Bull-Heart as a future undead hero. I liked where his story was going. Very excited to see who the last hero revealed works out to be.
 

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